Gay Marriage- among other topics

I recently had an interesting volley of emails with a friends. Thought I'd share them here:
Cool Stuff. Here is the first one from my friend who's a Lutheran Middle School teacher:

One of the best things to happen to me was that I've had to teach
Civics for a couple of years now. I rather enjoy it. We just finished a rather long simulation dealing with the Constitution. Check out the Interact Simulation Website to see what I'm talking about. Way cool. Anyway. They had a good time learning about parliamentary procedure if nothing else. I think for such a long time I focused on the History side of things that I never really dealt with the mechanics of government. Now I'm rather enjoying
myself in what I'm learning. I'm no expert by any means. I must say I learned a lot from you. Thanks for the insights that you provide.

We have a principal now whose a bit on the freaky conservative side. I admit that I'm not too crazy about gay marriage business and all but I'm also quite sure that there will be Democrats in Heaven. My principal, who's also the 5th grade social studies teacher, has made statements to the effect that being a Christian and a Democratic party member are next to impossible. NOT!! I have made it quite clear in my Civics class that that is not the
case. My mantra is "If you don't know how the Constitution works, you will be at the mercy of those that do." AND...I refuse to use my influential position as a teacher to make little Republican clones--or any party clones for that matter.

Well, I better go. Dinners ready. Thanks again for your insights.


And here is my first reply to him:

As good as all the history shows on History Channel and Discovery Channel are (that ne Dogfights on Friday nights is SO cool) I think that one of the best that I'd show to kids if I was still teaching HIstory is History Detectives on PBS.
They show the actual reseach process based on doccuments and evidence. Don't get me wrong, I agree that there are certain names, dates and battles that kids need- absolutely, but I've always felt that understanding, analysis and application are more useful and valuable than mere knowledge at least that's my perspective on Bloom's taxonomy.

I always tried to help kids see the dynamic tensions, the balances of divergent interests. That may be safe when you're talking about the Whiskey Rebellion or Federalism and Anti-Federalism but even when you get into Manifest Destiny or Reconstruction, if there are colleagues or parents who are wing-nuts, they can freak. Am I wrong that scrutiny and using critical thinking skills are good things? Non partisan things?

Unfortunately there are people who don't believe we should teach, they send their kids to a parochial school to be indoctrinated, not to learn how to think for themselves.

"It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen."
~George Orwell, 1984;


Whats funny is, you know how when you're a kid and somebody farts, you say "whoever smelt it, dealt it!"? What's funny is that the firt people to accuse others of revisionist history are the people who either have swallowed some propaganda or don't know enough about history (or government) so they're victoms of revisionist history themselves.

I still LOVE your mantra.

And another from my friend:

Hello again,

More food for thought.

Personally I cannot condone the homosexual lifestyle. It is immoral. Yet these are people who desperately need to hear the Gospel message. Hate the sin but love the sinner.

Just thought I'd say that so that up front. Now let's move into the political realm. I like your analogy of defining marriage to calling the sky blue. However, can one not also argue that a Christian in a democratic society has the glorious opportunity to help further the Gospel's spread by voting on issues such as this? Churches throughout the country (at least in some states where the marriage amendments were on the ballot) worked the issue of marriage into Bible studies and sermons out of growing concern that the institution was under "attack". True, I concede to the fact that parties would use this as a means to further their own agendas. Alas, this is politics. But couldn't it also be the Holy Spirit nudging people to witness through their votes, or across their dinner tables with their families as they discuss the issue? Granted, there are some real goofballs out there that have some serious hate issues, but what if out of perhaps hundreds of conversations about marriage amendments that a handful of marriages were strengthened and maybe some members of the gay community were given perhaps a moment of pause to consider the possibility of repentance and begin a journey that could ultimately bring them closer to our Lord? If that were the case for at least one person, then I guess I'd be happy to call this controversy over marriage a success. God has blessed us with the gift of democracy, wouldn't it be foolish and even sinful not use that gift to ultimately spread the Gospel?

Now, I will say that I would not likely favor ANY national amendment to define marriage because I feel that, based on the separation of powers under the federal system, it is the states that have the power to make laws concerning marriage, NOT the central government. Allowing the federal government to step in here would probably not be wise or a good use of our national government's time and treasure. However, if society elevates the gay lifestyle to the same status as say the African or Hispanic community, making this a civil rights issue, well, I guess then, as a civil rights issue, perhaps this is how the question will
have to be settled someday.

Forgive me if I don't sound clear, I'm trying to articulate my views as I write here. It's helping me to better understand my own position. You know, I recall teaching a unit in my U.S. history class about the labor unions. I recall how some early unions fought for political and economic reform by attempting to radically change the political landscape in order to accomplish their goals. Populism? Yet then you look at folks like Samuel Gompers and the collective bargaining process. They ended up playing the system better. Kind of like practicing your basketball layups rather than trying to drastically change the overall rules of basketball to fit your playing style. Okay, maybe I'm stretching this a little, but couldn't America's Christians take a cue from this? Try to be better Christians and share the gospel
BETTER instead of getting the government to do it. If the Grace of God were made more readily accessible through the witness of believers to nonbelievers, maybe we wouldn't have such a problem with issues like gay marriage. Maybe if the love of Christ was more readily evident through works of service and sincere praise, hearts would be turned Christ BEFORE people could be suckered into counterfeit feelings of love offered through such things as
homosexuality, pornography, and materialism. Let us be firm in our doctrine but also loving in how we treat others and strive for a better balance between Law and Gospel.

Well, I'm tapped out. Chew on this for a while and fire back when you have time.

Hope your family is well.



And another response from me:

Just so we're up front- I'm not gay, nor have I ever played a gay person on TV. (just trying to lighten the tone a little) Seriously, the older I get, the more I read and study Scripture, and the more I learn about the process that theologians, including early church fathers use to interpret scriptures, two hot-button issues become clearer to me: 1) that no matter how you try to dice it, God has prohibited homosexuality and 2) He probably did not intend for us to exclude people from roles of responsibility because of their gender as much as we have.

Hows that sound? Conservative on one issue and Liberal on another? Maybe.

I seem to want to talk about Luther's Doctrine of the Two Kingdoms. My understanding of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution leads me to believe that even though my religion considers homosexuality a sin, it would still be unfair in the eyes of the civil law to deny a monogomous homosexual long-time companion from providing for their partner financially or legally in ways that a traditional married spouse could.

I know a Republican law maker who has killed anti-gay marriage legislation in committee because if it came up to a vote, he knew he'd have to vote for it. The solution some progressive Christian leaders like Tony Campolo have suggested is similar to what's been done in Europe; civil authorities issue civil union agreements, and churches conduct marriages, but neither institution may do the other. As it is the Roman Catholic Church does not recognize Lutheran marriages, so if one district/synod of the American Episcopal Church blesses gay unions, the LCMS certainly shouldn't be cumpulsed to recognize that union. If marriage is from God, either as a full blown sacrament as the Catholics believe or as a metaphor for Christ's relationship to His Church as we do- why should we cede the ordination of marriages to any temporal, civil authority anyway? Doesn't that profane the institution? Teddy Roosevelt, not a particularly devout Presbyterian, didn't want "In God We Trust" on our currency because he believed it was blasphemous!

I guess I'm more comfortable as a Democrat, even when there are Democrats who do, accept, or believe things that make my skin crawl, is because Democrats are pragmatic and practical, they believe in detente' and compromise because they know that we live in a broken world and we have to make the best of it. What I have observed over the last 36 years is that because the Republican party chooses positions that are inflexible, they promote hypocricy. Wittness Gambling Bill Bennett, thieving Ralph Reed, drug-poppin' Hatian hooker employing Rush Limbaugh, and most recently pediphile Mark Foley, and Meth using gay hating gay guy Rev. Ted Haggard.

Love the sinner, hate the sin. Yeah, maybe the Holy Spirit may convict someone in their heart because our pastors and politicians are all up in arms about a wedge issue like gay marriage. Or... people who are struggling feel persecuted, hated and alienated. They're like Luther who practices self-flagilation because they look up at the cruel, unempathetic Christ as a heartless, angry judge, instead of as the approachable, patient, compassionate, yet hold you responsible and don't indulge your selfish sinful nature Father that He really is? Are we driving people out of the Church and making it less likely that they will hear the Word and come to repentance? What's the most effective means to influence our society? By voting? By legislating? Maybe, there's certainly room for that and I'd even agree that it is our duty. But so is by being salt and light, by being Jesus' arms and legs, in our relationships. "A Christian Nation begins at home" is one of my mantras. Walk the walk yourself, rather than screaming and shouting at others when they don't.

Unfortunately it is a sticky, complicated mess. It involves theology, civil rights, and biology too. Is society "elevating" homosexuality to the level of race? Is it a choice? A decision? Some conservatives are libertarians and even if they hate gays, they don't believe the government shoud interfere. Is it a disorder? Like a desease? If so, maybe we should regulate it like smoking, alohol, and drugs. If it is, surely we can't be more judgemental of them than we are of aloholics, adicts, or other people with disablilities. Thank God that through the Grace of our Lord, Heaven will be filled with drunks, smokers, pot-heads, adulterers, people who kuss and have looked at porn or cheated on a math quiz.... Yeah, see, I guess it gets down to how if I've even looked at a woman with lust in my heart I just as well pluck my eye out, huh? Or... if it's not a choice or a disorder, is it a genetic trait- can they help it? Would a black man choose to be black in a racist society? And if they can't help it, they what do we do with that, especially in the light of what the Bible says? Some scientists believe that biology suggests that sexual preference is not something one can help. Can't change genes. Not fair? Blame Adam & Eve? Blame Satan? Blame God?

Detente' (thank you Mr. Nixon & Mr. Kissenger for that one) Coexist. How do you put the toothpaste badk in the tube? All things, including society suffers from atrophy. And finally, don't be a control freak like the parent or principal who wants to produce clones instead of wanting to disciple children and equip the saints. Like it or not, we live in a pluralistic society. Many of the new Democratic Congressmen and Senators are pro guns, pro God, anti-gay marriage and anti abortion, but they're also anti-supply-side-economics or anti war.
This is a fallen world, and human, temporal law is about making it as fair and survivable as possible, not about making it right or godly or perfect- only the blood of Christ can do that. Too many "Christian Conservatives" today are confused about Law and Gospel. They think it's our job to prepare America for Christ's second comming, that we're somehow supposed to make this world obedient for God. That's not our job. Our job is to spread the word that we don't HAVE to work, we just have to accept His gracious gift because the work is done.

I'm sure plenty of Christian NAZIs thought that Deitrich Bonhoffer should go to Hell for lying to and dissenting against the God-instituted government in Germany. Thank God they would have been wrong, just as people who don't think that Christians can be Democrats may be well-meaning, but wrong. Or as John McLaughlin might say, "WRONG!"

Whew. Sorry to be so dang long-winded. I think, therefore I can't shut up.

Thanks for the forum and the fellowship.